Masquerade - Placeholder

Discuss the UK's largest Masquerade event which takes place both days during the London MCM Expo.

Do you Cosplay? Then tell us what you like about the event we organise, what costumes you are wearing or how you feel we can improve Cosplaying at the London MCM Expo

Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby uber-nerd on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm not sure I agree with the forumers only idea. I'm not a forum person in general until recently when I realised that it was all the forum people who got the masquerade places.

Both saturday expo's I've been to I've had to run to the cosplay desk and cry out for a place because people have stayed up till 1 in the morning and filled all the positions before me. It doesn't mean that the quality will be ANY better just because they got there first, and that's a pet hate of mine. I mean I try really really hard on my costumes each year, yet there's never the gaurentee that we'll even be able to compete. Yet any other system that could be set up to make sure I get in each year would be unfair to everyone else.

So we just have to sit back, and make sure that the masquerade entrants slowly become so good that people daren't enter...

But then I'll combust trying to make even better costumes each year...

See, you can't win, ever. Just be happy that all we get is kids making out on stage. It could be worse, there could be... caramelldansen.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:27 pm

The announcement for advance registrations is made on the forum and the website, people also email us to check when applications open. It is true that getting a form in early is no indication of costume quality. Options welcome, but I agree that any system will disadvantage someone, and the current system is as good a system as we can think of.

As mentioned, vetting can be discussed in a less volatile environment- but in the specific case of kissing, at the moment it looks like we have some people who don't want it, some people who do (aka the screaming fans whose maturity I will not question :P ) and if we do wish to implement censorship, a case for public decency needs to be made and I'm not convinced there is a solid one.
If it is acceptable in other media, I can't see why it is not acceptable on the stage. Why on earth people give it such a good reaction is something I can't answer... what did Prachett say about mobs? :lol:
Vetting, should it be implemented, surely would be geared towards ensuring a higher quality of performance regardless of what the punchline may be. A funny or moving well performed skit that culminated in a kiss (say eg we had Manga Shakespeare cosplayers doing the death scene from R&J) should not be banned by vetting rules in my opinion. The more... spurious kissing would still happen in spite of vetting or rules, and so we'd have to look at sanctions which as discussed above don't sit comfortably with me.

I may make the smooch signs anyway, as it seems more and more comical to me as time goes by...
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:41 pm

I can't say I've seen a 'kissing issue' skit (hope you don't mind me stealing that phrase ;) ) that I've enjoyed, I must admit. I think however the kissing is a peripheral issue- the problem is poor quality skits (of which a common example is the 'kissing issue' skit) as opposed to any skit with a kiss in it automatically sucking because it includes a kiss. Am I mistaken?
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Regasssa on Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:54 pm

Granny Gertrude wrote:I can't say I've seen a 'kissing issue' skit (hope you don't mind me stealing that phrase ;) ) that I've enjoyed, I must admit. I think however the kissing is a peripheral issue- the problem is poor quality skits (of which a common example is the 'kissing issue' skit) as opposed to any skit with a kiss in it automatically sucking because it includes a kiss. Am I mistaken?


Seems about the heads and tails of it. I certainly don't think you should go postal on anyone just because they have kissing in their skit. And sometimes it is well timed and clever - even if it is yaoi - and sometimes it's the same recycled stuff all over again, and there really isn't a place to draw a line. I think educating is really the only answer. Maybe if people who aren't kissy fangirls up the quality of their skits. I know that my sister and I, for instance, have been looking at quick-change and stage trickery in terms of skit, and I'd love to see a little iambic pentameter used in a skit somewhere, rather than just some random lines and wooden - or worse, over - acting. It can't be something that's fixed overnight, and I think you're right - we, as a community, are probably going to have to fix this ourselves, by simple attrition.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:09 pm

*nods* raising the standard of performances and the audience's expectations will over time have the desired effect... or we'll end up hermits talking about the good ol' days.

Any other 'softly softly' ideas other than a 'good skit' guide?
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby SephNoir on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:16 pm

I've got to say I really just hate seeing KH skits now because 9 times out of 10 it's just some random yaoi thing being performed by all girls. At expo the one thing I really did hate about the yaoi skits was having some idiot fangirl screaming in my ear because "ZOMGs the girls dressed as bois are kissing!!!!".
That said, I can totaly see why you guys haven't started vetting entries. No doubt the second you start you're going to have issues with people who haven't been allowed complaining about people who won't be doing performances getting places. In terms of the "kissing issue" skits Regassse is right about it being something we're going to have to sort out ourselves. I think it's just something we're going to have to wait to fade out, like with some of the horribly overdone dance skits (I've seen the Lcuky Star and Haruhi dances more than enough for one lifetime), the people that do it are hopefully going to get bored of doing the same thing eventually.

(And after all the posts on kissing I hope no one minded the kiss in our entry! It's something that actually happens in the Ah My Goddess film.) :3

For some actualy input into the event itself, I think if possible it'd be quite nice for the people entering to be able to see the layout of the stage beforehand. Especially for people entering for the first time it really helps you get a good idea of what you've got to work with.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:21 pm

There is the online guide book, which I think has an outline of the stage- you're right, we should have pointed entrants at that prior to the event. I could mock something up on paper on Friday evening once we've seen the stage... I'm not sure how useful that would be though.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby SephNoir on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:41 pm

That's true, considering a lot of people come up on the Friday to save rushing on Saturday I imagine a lot of people would miss seeing it. Given that the layout seems to always be fairly similar, ie main stage with a catwalk, I think just having a general layout that could maybe be sent to entrants when they sign up would be useful. If you just note that position of judges, exits etc could change slightly I'm sure lots of people would find it amazingly helpful. (I know getting a glance at the stage in the morning helped us decide what we were going to do exactly.)
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:47 pm

I can always do something in advance, then if it is all completely different I can scribble all over it :)

The general layout has been the same for the last few London Expos, so I'd guess the general layout will continue.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:53 pm

Your opinion of what makes a good skit is noted. I've taken part in skits that were very well received at other events more than once, and indeed our skits don't involve guys kissing. We have to accomodate other people's opinions as well- we can't listen to only one side of a discussion.

Scripts and recording do have to be sent in advance, however very, very few get sent more than 3 days before the event. As mentioned above, if we get strict on vetting etc I think we would see a sharp reduction in performances because even the good ones don't generally get things sent in a timely manner. Vetting would require us being stricter about such things.

Look, no offence but this is going round in circles. I promise it will be raised and as a participant of this year's masquerade you will have the same voice as everyone else in the consultation. Let's end it as a forum topic here for now.

Thanks.

Anything else?
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Lisu-chan on Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:58 pm

I think you guys are doing a great job, and here in Holland that last convention had a screening, and still a 'kissing' act went through (because they changed last minute)

You can't change the acts through the organisation; people perfroming those acts have to grow out of it. Holland is ALMOST freehug-free, and no pocky games have ever been held. The Haruhi dance is exploited now SO many times, even the new 14 years old (who've done research by internet, I guess) are getting bored by it.... I don't think it's any different for UK... People grow out of it! (some day...) I hope it helps! (and I'll be trying to ENTER the masq. next May, for a change! XD)
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Fullmetal_Dani on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:01 am

Its difficult, it really is.

I love the Sailor Moon girls who have 2 two dancing skits before, their dances are so well practised and utterly adorable! THATS fresh and original, not Hare Hare Yukai
I also like the Halloween KH cosplayers (the older ones) who had the Marluxia dressed as a pink fairy, IMPLIED g@y, not actual!

My suggestion for vetting skits is this: It works the same as pre judging, the performers turn up at a certain time and show one of the cosplay desk team their skit, if the person deems it unsuitable then they may be asked to change it slightly (ie, all the same, just remove the kiss.) Obviously you CANT stop people doing hare hare etc, but at least that way we'd get rid of that desperate plea for attention!
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby ShurikenFire on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:46 am

Granny Gertrude wrote:Banning people who kiss on stage from entering the next masquerade is an option, but as mentioned it's not something I'm terribly keen on. I don't think same sex kissing should be treated any differently from mixed gender kissing (yeah I know, I'm a bleedin' liberal :P ) and is 12-16 year olds kissing something that is never shown on telly before the watershed?

No attacking, and no problems with opinions ;)

Regarding the masquerade suggestion... currently 35 places go advance registrations (which is announced on the forums) and 15 go 'on the day' on a first come first served basis. What exactly are you proposing we change (I'm a little confused I'm afraid!) ?


Ah nvm sorry xD I didn't know the background system to it.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:26 pm

S'okay - quite reassuring actually :P
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby RedKira on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:42 pm

I'm not to agaist yaoi/crossplay-yaoi kisses in skit as long as its tasteful i mean a cute chu is okay long rather wet make out arn''ts

also as long as it reivent in said skit not really a hold lets get some fangirl screams

me and my friend are hoping to possible enter in may and one of the skit ideas i tauht of was after much posing and looking good to music kai gose up to rei and kisses him while putting on cat ears tail and a kitty bell then walks off leaving rei to relise what happen and strop if need be we can change it to distractions of some sort to me that seems like a yaoi kiss with some point. or maybe thats just me XD
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby shinikami on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:17 pm

With the rule of 'brought costumes', its a thing that have stopped us, or made us think about our Doctor Who group.
We have thought about it, and discussed it once or twice about entering the mascarade but because of the Doctor's outfit ( long coat and suit ) tends to be brought - then it does throw us a little.

That and the ideas just don't seem to work for us ^^;;

So a friend of mine and myself are hoping to do something special for May, if we can get the time and practice beforehand. Be a fun thing to do! Just have to trim it down to fit the timeline - and get the music for it
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:42 pm

The bought costumes rules applies more to stuff sold as costume sets such as certain items on eBay.


Not true. The rule applies to anything shop bought, commissioned, or bought from eBay etc. The strongest ban is on bought items that were specifically designed for cosplay, however store bought clothing is similarly banned unless it has been heavily modified or used as a base to build a costume on (or similar). The bulk of a costume must be home made, so if a significant amount of a costume is a relatively unmodified store bought item, it does not qualify.

Some have slipped through before, and we have relaxed it eg at Midlands or JapanEx where we needed to make up numbers.

It does discourage some costumes unfortunately, as it is much easier to buy a suit than make one (and of course suits are often owned or borrow-able) but there's no reason why you can't make a long cloak or suit for the Masquerade.

We had a great Madame de Pompadour and Weeping Angel at Midlands, so Dr Who does get represented. On the other hand, I'm not surprised that don't get many Heroes cosplayers in the Masq, as they simply don't have costumes that are interesting to make- and as such are better suited for floor cosplay.

It simply boils down to this- every space given to costumes that are bought our quickly made out of bought parts means someone who spent months putting together a costume from scratch doesn't get a place. If the Masquerade was larger this would not be a major issue, as things are we have to stay focused on it being primarily about home made costumes.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby shinikami on Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:52 pm

Granny Gertrude wrote:
The bought costumes rules applies more to stuff sold as costume sets such as certain items on eBay.


Not true. The rule applies to anything shop bought, commissioned, or bought from eBay etc. The strongest ban is on bought items that were specifically designed for cosplay, however store bought clothing is similarly banned unless it has been heavily modified or used as a base to build a costume on (or similar). The bulk of a costume must be home made, so if a significant amount of a costume is a relatively unmodified store bought item, it does not qualify.

Some have slipped through before, and we have relaxed it eg at Midlands or JapanEx where we needed to make up numbers.

It does discourage some costumes unfortunately, as it is much easier to buy a suit than make one (and of course suits are often owned or borrow-able) but there's no reason why you can't make a long cloak or suit for the Masquerade.

We had a great Madame de Pompadour and Weeping Angel at Midlands, so Dr Who does get represented. On the other hand, I'm not surprised that don't get many Heroes cosplayers in the Masq, as they simply don't have costumes that are interesting to make- and as such are better suited for floor cosplay.

It simply boils down to this- every space given to costumes that are bought our quickly made out of bought parts means someone who spent months putting together a costume from scratch doesn't get a place. If the Masquerade was larger this would not be a major issue, as things are we have to stay focused on it being primarily about home made costumes.


So what you are saying is that if we did choose to enter one year, then we would have problem with The Doctor - even if the other members of our group put or built our costumes from scratch?
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:17 pm

As things stand, if you chose not to make the costume for The Doctor then we would need to approve the entry. If it was a group entry of say, 4 or more people with a single costume in the group which was largely made of store bought items... well, we've allowed that in the past.

As mentioned at the start of this thread, the rules for the Masq are not yet set in stone for next year, so this is partly speculative.
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Moozman on Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:08 pm

Granny Gertrude wrote:
Not true. The rule applies to anything shop bought, commissioned, or bought from eBay etc. The strongest ban is on bought items that were specifically designed for cosplay, however store bought clothing is similarly banned unless it has been heavily modified or used as a base to build a costume on (or similar). The bulk of a costume must be home made, so if a significant amount of a costume is a relatively unmodified store bought item, it does not qualify.


OMG YOU SERIOUS NO MORE L COSPLAYERS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Also don't want to bring up the whole yoai, pocky ect argument up again as i can talk about it for hours XD (seriously ask dani) but don't worry GG you cosplay cordinator guys always have my support *thumbs up*.

Also on another note:
Has no one noticed this genious idea?????:
Granny Gertrude wrote:We could make a big, heart shaped SMOOOOCH sign on a stick, which entries wanting to 'kiss' can hold up in front of themselves - which would get the message across without any actual tonsil checking?


When i saw this i was like OMGH LOLZ i have an idea, the judges should have a set of different signs that they can hold up (double sided) with hilarious commentary that they hold up, as contestants are on stage, this is both for the contestants and for the audience.
This can add to the fun of the masquerade and give it something that no other cosplay convention has (as far as i know).

Stuff the Signs can say:
WTH?!?
This is Relevent to my interests!
WINRAR!
Is that a guy? (for the crossplayers)
Needz more Haruhi

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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby earth_bubbles on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:08 pm

Let's get away from the girl yaoi, and back to the skimpily dressed people. About being skimpily dressed, I am currently planning to go as Nevan in May, and well, she wears bats and hair (her own, really long, covering -most- of her breasts. The bats are in a skirt). Of course, I would wear significantly more clothing int eh form of spandex, but seeing as she is also green and I would be covering myself in body paint, from a distance... Well yeah.

I wouldn't be banned forever, would I?
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Granny Gertrude on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:21 pm

Not by me you wouldn't... :roll:
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Fullmetal_Dani on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:16 am

WOOO SKIMPY!

Theres nowt wrong with skimpy really ^^
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby sjbonnar on Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:39 am

earth_bubbles wrote:Let's get away from the girl yaoi, and back to the skimpily dressed people. About being skimpily dressed, I am currently planning to go as Nevan in May, and well, she wears bats and hair (her own, really long, covering -most- of her breasts. The bats are in a skirt). Of course, I would wear significantly more clothing int eh form of spandex, but seeing as she is also green and I would be covering myself in body paint, from a distance... Well yeah.

I wouldn't be banned forever, would I?


NEvan!? Awesomely win ^_^
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Re: Masquerade - Placeholder

Postby Evany on Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:39 pm

Hi, I was hoping to enter my first masquerade in May 2009 and was curious about something. I'm making my cosplay for it by hand but was wondering if I was able to use a generic store item such as a skirt (non specific to the cosplay) and then modify it to fit in with my cosplay would it still be ok to enter or does that count as store bought. It's just sewing a skirt that will stay together is not my forte, especially because I am sewing by hand. So I was wondering if it is ok to use a modified bought item from any clothing retailer?

EDIT:// For example, I want to do Lulu, and the belted skirt I want to modify from something that is a lot sturdier than what I could ever make. Though i would be adding all the details tailoring it to look good.
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